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Battle Power's PL Final List; Cell Saga
Topic Started: Feb 28 2012, 04:48 PM (1,915 Views)
Battle Power
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Finally I've been able to finish Cell's saga. This is my third and final PL list, pretty confident about this one as well but I might be off here and there, opinions are always welcome.

Return of Freeza
Character NameState & Power Level
GokuFull Power - 20,000,000
SSJ -------- 200,000,000
TrunksFull Power - 19,000,000
SSJ -------- 190,000,000
Freeza [Cyborg]Full Power - 150,000,000
VegetaFull Power - 3,200,000
PiccoloFull Power - 2,800,000
GohanFull Power - 925,000
KuririnFull Power - 500,000
TenshinhanFull Power - 265,000
ChiaotzuFull Power - 160,000
YamuchaFull Power - 150,000



Three years have passed
Character NameState & Power Level
VegetaFull Power - 370,000,000
SSJ ------- 3,700,000,000
GokuFull Power - 310,000,000
SSJ ------- 3,100,000,000
PiccoloFull Power - 1,500,000,000
GohanFull Power - 200,000,000
KuririnFull Power - 2,000,000
TenshinhanFull Power - 1,300,000
YamuchaFull Power - 450,000
ChiaotzuFull Power - 350,000



The androids reveal themselves
Character NamesState & Power Level
Goku [Heart Virus]SSJ ------------ 1,100,000,000
SSJ l Drained - 950,000,000
Android #19Full Power ----------------------- 950,000,000
Kamehameha Absorbed - 1,100,000,000
VegetaSSJ ---- 3,700,000,000
Drained - 300,000,000
Android #20Full Power - 1,000,000,000
VS Piccolo - 1,200,000,000
PiccoloFull Power - 1,500,000,000
TrunksFull Power - 335,000,000
SSJ ------- 3,350,000,000
Android #18
Android #18 [Mirai]
Full Power - 4,250,000,000
Full Power - 3,250,000,000
Android #17
Android #17 [Mirai]
Full Power - 4,500,000,000
Full Power - 3,500,000,000



Cell is out for perfection
Character NameState & Power Level
PiccoloFull Power - 1,500,000,000
Kami -------- 4,500,000,000
Android #17Full Power - 4,500,000,000
CellImperfect -------------------- 3,900,000,000
>> Humans Absorbed - 7,600,000,000

Semi-Perfect ------------- 11,400,000,000
Android #16Full Power - 7,700,000,000
TenshinhanFull Power --------- 1,300,000
Shin Kikoho - 1,300,000,000



Vegeta & Trunks get out of the RoSaT
Character NameState & Power Level
Cell Semi-Perfect --- 11,400,000,000
>>Full Power - 15,200,000,000

Perfect [Suppressed] - 30,400,000,000
VegetaFull Power - 1,400,000,000
SSJ ---------14,000,000,000
ASSJ ------ 21,000,000,000
TrunksFull Power - 1,300,000,000
SSJ -------- 13,000,000,000
ASSJ ------ 19,500,000,000
USSJ ------ 39,000,000,000



The Cell Games
Character NameState & Power Level
CellVS Goku ------ 80,000,000,000
Full Power - 152,000,000,000
Zenkai ------ 228,000,000,000
GohanFull Power - 13,500,000,000
MSSJ ------ 135,000,000,000
SSJ2 ------ 270,000,000,000
GokuFull Power -- 7,500,000,000
MSSJ ------- 75,000,000,000
VS Cell Jr - 35,000,000,000
Cell JuniorFull Power - 56,000,000,000
VegetaFull Power - 5,350,000,000
SSJ -------- 53,500,000,000
TrunksFull Power - 4,900,000,000
SSJ -------- 49,000,000,000
PiccoloFull Power - 36,000,000,000
Android #16Full Power - 7,700,000,000
KuririnFull Power - 2,000,000
TenshinhanFull Power - 1,300,000
YamuchaFull Power - 450,000
Edited by Battle Power, Jun 7 2012, 02:29 PM.
Every villain is the hero of their own story.
[Power Level List] Dragon Ball - Updated
[Power Level List] Saiya-jin Saga
[Power Level List] Freeza Saga

[Comparative Power List] Cell Saga
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Cocoman
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Tenshinhan+Krillin+Gohan+Piccolo(suppressed)+c20>SSjin Vegeta.

And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.
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Pretty good, except either SSJ Goku (Mecha Frieza's arrival) should be stronger, or SSJ Trunks should be weaker, as Goku was said to outclass Trunks by a good margin. That's the only thing I see wrong right now, but I haven't finished reading the list. Also, Piccolo or Vegeta (Mecha Frieza's arrival) should be stronger, as Goku believed one of them defeated Frieza.

Quote:
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.


Did you miss the three zeroes?
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, Feb 28 2012, 10:38 PM.
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Cocoman
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Flying Nimbus
Feb 28 2012, 10:35 PM
Quote:
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.


Did you miss the three zeroes?
Semi-Perfect --- 11,400,000,000

Shin Kikoho - 1,300,000,000

Makes total sense :blush:
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  • When do you believe Vegeta's power is drained; or rather how powerful do you believe Vegeta is when he beat's #19? If Vegeta is indeed that weak he would not have been able to beat #19, as #19 should become somewhat stronger from draining Vegeta; this brings me to a point in your favor:

  • #20's statement can be ignored because of the above point. Vegeta is drained substantially by #19 and is still able to beat him easily enough; unless absorption is so different from #19 to #20, I'd doubt all (the Z-Fighters and #20's) of their powers would have to sum up larger than Vegeta's; so that's something to consider.

  • At the Cell Games, Vegeta and Trunks are implied to at least be stronger than half of Goku's power. Piccolo is implied to be strong enough in which Trunks would have been shocked that Piccolo would have been of no help against Cell. So, he'd probably be closer to Cell 3 (At Vegeta, Trunks), Trunks (A2SSJ (USSJ), At Cell), or Goku (SSJ, At Karin's Tower), than anything else.

    Also, I'd assume that Goku's max power is double or more of Trunks USSJ power at Cell; recall that half power at Karin's Tower made everyone go "OMG-WHAT-POWER!".
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Cocoman
Feb 28 2012, 10:52 PM
Flying Nimbus
Feb 28 2012, 10:35 PM
Quote:
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.


Did you miss the three zeroes?
Semi-Perfect --- 11,400,000,000

Shin Kikoho - 1,300,000,000

Makes total sense :blush:
Tien wasn't on the level of Semiperfect Cell, the Shin Kikoho isn't even a ki based attacked, it uses genki/life force. It didn't hurt cell, it merely held him down and distracted him. Are you trying the say that Tien's Shin Kikoho should be higher than or equal to Semi-Perfect Cell's power?
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Cocoman
 
Tenshinhan+Krillin+Gohan+Piccolo(suppressed)+c20>SSjin Vegeta.

Why do you say so? It's really hard for me to think that.
SSJ Vegeta is the most powerfull character at that point and while Gohan & Piccolo trained by constantly sparring with someone stronger, Tenshinhan & Kuririn simply trained under normal circumstances. I can't see them adding up much to the equation.

Cocoman
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.

It's really hard to judge, Semi-Perfect Cell didn't seem to be damaged at all by the attack, he was being pushed though, we can assume that's the nature of the Kikoho (like Makankosappo is piercing and Kienzan is slicing) so I'm not sure, the multiplier is already huge. What's your multiplier?

Flying Nimbus
 
Pretty good, except either SSJ Goku (Mecha Frieza's arrival) should be stronger, or SSJ Trunks should be weaker, as Goku was said to outclass Trunks by a good margin.

Trunks is the hardest character to make out of it, really. The power he gets from Mecha-Freeza to the arrival of the androids is absurd, since he is stated to be stronger than Goku, any ideas how he did that? I'm out of them.

As for Vegeta & Piccolo being stronger, I just don't believe they could've grown so much in 2/3 of an year & training alone. I think Goku just pointed at the two strongest at the time, what do you think?

bizness86
 
When do you believe Vegeta's power is drained; or rather how powerful do you believe Vegeta is when he beat's #19?

I'd say Android #19 managed to absorb about 1,000,000,000 or maybe less, Vegeta was really confident though, so he overkilled with his Big Bang attack, taking him down to about 1,000,000,000, taking into account unmastered SSJ drains your ki constantly as well.
He turned back into base mostly because he knew #20 would absorb him as well and probably kill him that way, and SSJ drain wouldn't go on his favor.

bizness86
 
#20's statement can be ignored because of the above point.

I actually completely ignore #20 statement of how he could surpass Vegeta absorbing Piccolo & everyone else. Piccolo was suppressed and weighted at the time and Kuririn & Tenshinhan were really weak compared to Vegeta, Piccolo & Gohan as well, also there is a chance all of them were suppressed (they all knew very well how to do it by this point). I can't really make sense out of what he said.

bizness86
 
At the Cell Games, Vegeta and Trunks are implied to at least be stronger than half of Goku's power. Piccolo is implied to be strong enough in which Trunks would have been shocked that Piccolo would have been of no help against Cell. So, he'd probably be closer to Cell 3 (At Vegeta, Trunks), Trunks (A2SSJ (USSJ), At Cell), or Goku (SSJ, At Karin's Tower), than anything else.

I can definitely make Trunks & Vegeta stronger, I didn't give them the same boost they got at their first RoSaT.
Piccolo, however, is another case, I have him being a trainer better than even Vegeta himself, but just one RoSaT instead of two makes a big difference, I'd have to pull out a crazy multiplier for him.

bizness86
 
Also, I'd assume that Goku's max power is double or more of Trunks USSJ power at Cell; recall that half power at Karin's Tower made everyone go "OMG-WHAT-POWER!".

I think being stronger than Perfect Cell [at Vegeta & Trunks] would be enough to surprise everyone, although I can make USSJ a lower multiplier, maybe x2 or x2,5 ASSJ instead of x3.
Every villain is the hero of their own story.
[Power Level List] Dragon Ball - Updated
[Power Level List] Saiya-jin Saga
[Power Level List] Freeza Saga

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On #20, I'd agree.

For Piccolo, I've stated the implication; Goku goes to ask Piccolo whether or not he'd be able to split and noticed that Piccolo's gotten a lot stronger. Piccolo wants Goku to be completely honest as to whether or not he'd even have a chance against Cell; if he were significantly less powerful that what Cell has already shown, there wouldn't be too much to wonder about. Goku confirmed that Piccolo would stand no chance, and Trunks is shocked. So Piccolo would have powerful enough to raise the question.

Also, if you simply have to make sense of it, Piccolo raised his power significantly going into fighting #19 and #20. He can do it again, especially fresh from fusing with Kami.

As for 50% Goku, I hear you, but I'd honestly have him at least at Trunks last shown power, if not higher, just for the reason that everyone seemed shocked even after Trunks fought Cell and lost. It seems as if you Trunks at Cell severely outclasses Goku's 50%
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Cocoman
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Flying Nimbus
Feb 29 2012, 12:45 AM
Cocoman
Feb 28 2012, 10:52 PM
Flying Nimbus
Feb 28 2012, 10:35 PM
Quote:
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.


Did you miss the three zeroes?
Semi-Perfect --- 11,400,000,000

Shin Kikoho - 1,300,000,000

Makes total sense :blush:
Tien wasn't on the level of Semiperfect Cell, the Shin Kikoho isn't even a ki based attacked, it uses genki/life force. It didn't hurt cell, it merely held him down and distracted him. Are you trying the say that Tien's Shin Kikoho should be higher than or equal to Semi-Perfect Cell's power?
A common misconception. Life force is Ki. The only reason the users life force is depleted is because of how powerful a technique is.

Kame-sennin: “It’s a technique that holds outrageous destructive power…many levels above even the Kamehameha…However, because of this extreme terribleness, it fiercely depletes one’s own energy, and they say people have even died from it…Even if one doesn’t die, one’s lifespan will undoubtedly be shortened…”

Also what happens when someone is near death? Their Ki falls. Just something to think about.


Besides the Kikoho is all about power. That's the whole point of the attack in the first place.

Kame-sennin: “He’s concentrated the ki throughout his body into his hands.”
Goku: “Th-this is an incredible ki!”
Tenshinhan: “If I use up all my ki here, then I’ll be completely out of strength. I’ve got to save a certain amount of ki.”

Also the way the Shin Kikoho is portrayed before he is about to fire it at Cell implies 'great power'. When someone is about to fire an extremely powerful attack/use a very effective technique AT sometimes draws in 'squiggly lines' to emphasize this. If I could be bothered I could find numerous examples of this but I can't really remember whereabouts he uses them. If you looked for yourself you'll probably find them.

You have to remember that Cell is extremely durable. C16 says that Cell isn't the kind of opponent which is able to be killed by an attack like the Hell's Flash.
Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho could easily be on Cell's level yet it wouldn't cause any damage.


@Battle power;

It's stated that it's the case. I made it work in my pls pretty easily but you hve inflated the pre RoSaT SSjin pl's too much. The Earthlings should be on the base Saiyans' level.


I wouldn't get hung up on multipliers. AT doesn't put in any kind of thought for these kind of things. After all he did say he pictured SSjin as a 10x multiplier eventhough he just had Goku getting dominated using KKx20.


@Bizness you might as well believe Pure Boo>Evil Boo if you're ignoring statements all of a sudden.
Edited by Cocoman, Feb 29 2012, 01:17 AM.
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Cocoman
Feb 29 2012, 01:15 AM
Flying Nimbus
Feb 29 2012, 12:45 AM
Cocoman
Feb 28 2012, 10:52 PM
Flying Nimbus
Feb 28 2012, 10:35 PM
Quote:
 
And you have the Shin Kikoho ridiculously under powered.


Did you miss the three zeroes?
Semi-Perfect --- 11,400,000,000

Shin Kikoho - 1,300,000,000

Makes total sense :blush:
Tien wasn't on the level of Semiperfect Cell, the Shin Kikoho isn't even a ki based attacked, it uses genki/life force. It didn't hurt cell, it merely held him down and distracted him. Are you trying the say that Tien's Shin Kikoho should be higher than or equal to Semi-Perfect Cell's power?
A common misconception. Life force is Ki. The only reason the users life force is depleted is because of how powerful a technique is.

Kame-sennin: “It’s a technique that holds outrageous destructive power…many levels above even the Kamehameha…However, because of this extreme terribleness, it fiercely depletes one’s own energy, and they say people have even died from it…Even if one doesn’t die, one’s lifespan will undoubtedly be shortened…”

Also what happens when someone is near death? Their Ki falls. Just something to think about.


Besides the Kikoho is all about power. That's the whole point of the attack in the first place.

Kame-sennin: “He’s concentrated the ki throughout his body into his hands.”
Goku: “Th-this is an incredible ki!”
Tenshinhan: “If I use up all my ki here, then I’ll be completely out of strength. I’ve got to save a certain amount of ki.”

Also the way the Shin Kikoho is portrayed before he is about to fire it at Cell implies 'great power'. When someone is about to fire an extremely powerful attack/use a very effective technique AT sometimes draws in 'squiggly lines' to emphasize this. If I could be bothered I could find numerous examples of this but I can't really remember whereabouts he uses them. If you looked for yourself you'll probably find them.

You have to remember that Cell is extremely durable. C16 says that Cell isn't the kind of opponent which is able to be killed by an attack like the Hell's Flash.
Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho could easily be on Cell's level yet it wouldn't cause any damage.


@Battle power;

It's stated that it's the case. I made it work in my pls pretty easily but you hve inflated the pre RoSaT SSjin pl's too much. The Earthlings should be on the base Saiyans' level.


I wouldn't get hung up on multipliers. AT doesn't put in any kind of thought for these kind of things. After all he did say he pictured SSjin as a 10x multiplier eventhough he just had Goku getting dominated using KKx20.


@Bizness you might as well believe Pure Boo>Evil Boo if you're ignoring statements all of a sudden.
Hmmm... I guess that could be agreed on, actually. It could be higher than it is, but perhaps not too high, or else Tien is just haxed
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bizness86
 
Also, if you simply have to make sense of it, Piccolo raised his power significantly going into fighting #19 and #20. He can do it again, especially fresh from fusing with Kami.

I agree with you there, I'll make him stronger.
Although I make up my list based on logic rather than being plot-based (which is stupid, I know, can't help it :p ).
I can definitely make Piccolo's training multiplier higher since he's fused with Kami and is more intelligent and knowledgeable now.
As for USSJ Trunks, I'll make the multiplier lower tomorrow when I edit my list.

Cocoman
 
It's stated that it's the case. I made it work in my pls pretty easily but you hve inflated the pre RoSaT SSjin pl's too much. The Earthlings should be on the base Saiyans' level.

Then I guess there is no way around it for me since I don't agree with that at all. The humans were much / considerable weaker before the 3 year training as it were, and they didn't do any kind of special training. Compared to Gohan & Piccolo who had a stronger sparring partner, Vegeta who trained under high gravity and Goku who was simply miles above and had spar partners (even if weaker).

The only way I see them catching up is if they all trained together under high gravity, but to me it's pretty clear Akira wanted the humans to be nothing but sidekicks by now.
Edited by Battle Power, Feb 29 2012, 01:48 AM.
Every villain is the hero of their own story.
[Power Level List] Dragon Ball - Updated
[Power Level List] Saiya-jin Saga
[Power Level List] Freeza Saga

[Comparative Power List] Cell Saga
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Cocoman
Feb 29 2012, 01:15 AM
@Bizness you might as well believe Pure Boo>Evil Boo if you're ignoring statements all of a sudden.


Then I'll just state that the technique works in a way other than simple addition of powers.

Tenshinhan < Krillin <<<< Gohan (Three Year Later) <<<< Piccolo (Suppressed) <<<<
Goku (Three Years Later) <<< Vegeta (Three Years Later) <<<< #19 <<
#19 (Powered by Goku) << #19 (Powered by Vegeta, Goku ) <<<<
Vegeta (SSJ, Drained by #19) <<< #20 <<<< Piccolo (Max at #20) <<<
Goku (SSJ, Afflicted at #19) <<< Goku (SSJ, Three Years Later) <<< Vegeta (SSJ, At #18)


<less, or worse, than
<<is disadvantaged, or worse, than
<<<can only rival, or worse,
<<<<underwhelms

large gap to feel for #19 not to stomp Vegeta after absorbing energy and for all of them together to be stronger than Vegeta.
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bizness86
Feb 29 2012, 03:01 AM
Cocoman
Feb 29 2012, 01:15 AM
@Bizness you might as well believe Pure Boo>Evil Boo if you're ignoring statements all of a sudden.


Then I'll just state that the technique works in a way other than simple addition of powers.

Tenshinhan < Krillin <<<< Gohan (Three Year Later) <<<< Piccolo (Suppressed) <<<<
Goku (Three Years Later) <<< Vegeta (Three Years Later) <<<< #19 <<
#19 (Powered by Goku) << #19 (Powered by Vegeta, Goku ) <<<<
Vegeta (SSJ, Drained by #19) <<< #20 <<<< Piccolo (Max at #20) <<<
Goku (SSJ, Afflicted at #19) <<< Goku (SSJ, Three Years Later) <<< Vegeta (SSJ, At #18)


<less, or worse, than
<<is disadvantaged, or worse, than
<<<can only rival, or worse,
<<<<underwhelms

large gap to feel for #19 not to stomp Vegeta after absorbing energy and for all of them together to be stronger than Vegeta.
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

So your 'explanation' doesn't work...at all.

@Battle Power, I don't see anywhere that implies that the Earthlings should be much weaker than the base Saiyans at this point.
Tenshinhan is already shown to have comparable, if not just as good reflexes as Goku;

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As early as the Trunks arc Tenshinhan was already talking trash to Vegeta and wanting to settle the score with him.
Edited by Cocoman, Feb 29 2012, 03:41 AM.
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says energy not power :) . power is change of energy over time :D . Mine wins. You confirmed me kindly.
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Cocoman
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bizness86
Feb 29 2012, 03:56 AM
says energy not power :) . power is change of energy over time :D . Mine wins. You confirmed me kindly.
Notsureifsrs?

Ki = Energy = Power.
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